Questions regarding the use of Vitamin C from Health Food Stores and the use of Bioflavenoids have been raised. Since Vitamin C is so effective in curing bacterial infections and fortifying fish, this question merits to be looked at indeed.
Question
Any thoughts on using Vitamin C from the health food store? It is available in a "very pure form" with Rose Hips. Available in liquid/tab. How would I use it, and with what kind of prophylactic dosing. I am asking this because as an MD I know that one or two manufacturers make the overwhelming majority of Vitamin C produced in this country. Probably even the Vitamin C that is put in your product.Only the labels and prices are changed (to protect the innocent). For example, I have seen the same Vitamin C tabs sell for one price under the generic brand, and 3-4X when it is a brand name (same manufacturer).
Thanks,
Dave
Reply
Dave : The buffering of the C for human consumption is geared towards the pH of the human stomach which as an MD you know is very low due to the phosphoric acid present there.In aquariums we are dealing with a totally different set of circumstances and the buffering is totally different (pH of around 2+ Vs pH of 8+).
So, yes, in terms of the ascorbic acid itself there is no difference and yes, only few companies actually make it.
Where the difference is, and I think that is important and hope you do not mind that I copy the list in this message so they get this information too, is in the manner that the end product is buffered.
Vitamin C for human consumption usually has calcium carbonate as the buffer whereas the one for aquarium use is buffered differently. Forgive me for skipping how it is buffered as we are dealing with a commercial product and I cannot give the formula away of someone else's product (TAD Reef Ent. TX).
Suffice it to say that it is not buffered in the manner that C for human consumption is.
Your point on bioflavenoids is an interesting one. I have not been able to come to a definitive conclusion as to which one is the better variety to use although rose hips and acerola are both certainly worth using and have proven to be beneficial based on what we have experienced.
To answer the question directly: can you use ascorbic acid? Yes you can but you better be real careful or you will soon find that you will experience a serious acid fall in the tank and a total skewing of the buffer and a greatly reduced alkalinity.
I will leave the final judgement up to you and defer to you MD knowledge but submit that in this case one needs to be careful as corals and fish do not react in the manner we do and in addition to that I submit that you need to take the two totally different buffering and pH systems into account.
This is, actually, explained in the document on Vitamin C on our web site http://www.athiel.com not in this kind of detail but the general idea of what I just described is there.
My personal feeling is that it is better to use the aquarium brand.
Note that since I sold TAT I have no interest in the matter and do not get paid a bonus or royalty whether Alan sells more or less vitamin C.
He is copied in this message too.
Should you have any other questions regarding C, feel free to ask. I noticed that you posted a whole series of questions for me on the reefkeeping list and I will get around to answering them. I have so much mail that it is just going to take a little longer than usual.
Albert
Second Question
Thanks for your reply Albert. Just an interesting follow-up - from what I understand the amount of Vitamin C made from rose hips is very small. It is more of a marketing hype. I believe most Vitamin C is made from corn. If one were to make Vitamin C from rose hips only, it would not only be prohibitively expensive, but would probably require many more roses than all of the reekfkeeping men have given to their spouses in a lifetime (just an analogy to stir it up a little)!I don't know much about fish physiology, but am always interested in the comparisons between fish and humans in terms of medication, treatment etc.
In medicine we have a saying that I think applies to fish very well - In Latin "primum non nocere" which means "first do no harm". I think we can all learn from this statement by reading your articles, reefkeeping messages, books, etc.
Reply
David : Yes that is correct based on the knowledge I have acquired about Vitamin C manufacturing because of my dealings with several companies.They were most reluctant to even change anything and wanted huge numbers ordered before they would even consider changing anything. Eventually I did find a company that did though.
You are correct also about the amount of bioflavenoids in the C tablets. If the amounts were high the cost would indeed jump by 10 fold or more. Nevertheless some are included.
I think also that you are right about the fact that most C is now made from Corn and there is one company that has just about the monopoly on that market.
Agreed also on "first do not harm" That is one of the reasons that it is much safer to use Aquarium Vitamin C than a generic or brand name one made for human consumption.
The database of our message lists, which can be searched from our web site includes many testimonials from people who have used it and have reported excellent results and the healing of many fish.
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