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"In the training of the horse, or else in the instruction of the rider, I always strove to apply only simple procedures, having a powerful action on the horse and not requiring any effort of the imagination to be perfectly understood of my students who I constantly warned against all complicated method."

"Rapid Training" De Salins(translation C. Stevens all right reserved)

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TO THE POSTS

Subject: Re: DRESSAGE training fees somebody wrote:

" Similarly, in dressage, we have seen the growth of "intro" tests, green-as-grass tests, walk-trot tests. How do these serve to raise the standard of competition? Sure, you get a few more people into the show ring, but does this in the final analysis produce more and better Grand Prix horses. Nope."

Lana replied,
"Maybe we haven't given those who have just started at the grass root level, enough time to progress up through the system? Have those tests been available in the U.S. for say 7 - 10 years? How long does it take to develop a grand prix rider, or horse?

But you have also seen the "perpetual" basic 1 riders, who will never go anywhere, partly because they have no help, and partly because they have no committment. Don't you agree that there would be lots more of *these* kinds of riders if it were an inexpensive and popular sport?

Perhaps we shouldn't impose our ambitions on to all riders? Not everyone has the ambition to become a grand prix rider...doesn't mean they aren't committed...their goals are not the same, and it doesn't mean that they won't take good care of their animals. Sorry Liz, but I am not so sure that this would be a terrible thing if we had a lot more basic riders...we might eventually get a large enough pool of riders, that we do increase the amount of Grand Prix horse/rider combinations. This is based on percentages of riders who make it to the Grand Prix. Say for example that 5 percent of riders will eventually become Grand prix riders...if you had a pool of 100 people...you would get 5 riders that made it...if you had a pool of 5000 riders = 250 riders. Of course, I have absolutely no idea what the real percentages would be...of course, this is just theory.

I think the conversation was originally something to the effect of supporting high costs of the sport because it would keep the unsuitable people out. I am going to don the flame suit now and challenge that by saying the exact opposite...the high costs of this sport encourage corruption, politicking and the type of individual who would seek to gain big bucks as training fees...sale of horses, etc., regardless of their actual expertise. I'm am not making a generalization...there are those trainers who really do give you your money's worth...there are also those who take advantage of the ignorant, the wealthy and laugh all the way to the bank. Someone stated that as demand for horses would go up...in order to meet the demand...breeders would produce inferior stock to try to keep up with demand. In fact...I believe that what happened to the Arabs( that was used as an example)...is that a lot of people "wanted in on the action", BECAUSE of the perceived values of the animals...they sought to make a lot of money quick...and so bred anything to anything. It was THE HIGH PRICES that produced the junk. If the prices of the animals had remained realistic...there wouldn't have been so many people out to make a buck...the margins wouldn't have been there.

Just a few thoughts......

Lana

Shelly had written,
"Funny, the Spanish who call them self high school trainers used to train their youngsters with a Curb and cavesson with a metal insert with a serrated edge (serreta), then they went on to do it with a snaffle and the serreta and now they are down to the plain old snaffle.

Sue asked me:
"Who wrote this part of the NSAE news?"

my response was:
That part was written by Shelley Liddell.

Sue responded:
"If included in that statement is the 'Real Escuela Andaluza Del Arte Ecuestre', then I'm afraid the statement could be incorrect. Although they profess to be classical, practicing skillful riding and training, many of the trainers there are actually brutal in their methods, using whip, spur and curb in cruel and abusive ways. I would imagine that the people who call themselves high school trainers etc., etc., as mentioned in the post, are rare in Spain. The serrata is alive and well and sold in practically every tack store, certainly in Southern and South-Western Spain, and in Jerez where the school is based. Few horses in Andalucia, including the carriage horses, have not worn one, although, I admit, it is not commonly used at the school, it appears to be a normal part of the equipment elsewhere, as a plain cavesson, or flash noseband is here. The majority of the horses trained at the school, wear curb bits, not snaffles.

My understanding of training practices in Spain is limited. I rightly or wrongly personally assume Spanish training is a crude and barbaric thing. Spain has never been a place where academic equitation has been practiced. Spanish literature about equitation is usually an display of torturous bits and I think the worst part of the American cowboy is from the Spanish tradition.

Course, it depends on what is meant by young horses, maybe the horses are started under saddle in plain snaffles, but it does appear that their training doesn't continue that way. I only mention it, as I see Spain cited often as somewhere horses are trained using classical methods. If so, it's not the kind of classical methods I'd be interested in, nor would anyone in receipt of NSAE, I would have thought. I'd hate them to go to Spain expecting to see good classical and haute ecole. I think unless they were very lucky, they'd be disappointed.

I responded:
My personal understanding is the same as yours in this regard, but I would not mind being corrected. I do not speak Spanish. When I think of Spanish riding, I think of cruel practice. I am certain that we are not right in an absolute statement but I think it substantially so.

Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 11:23:42 +0800
From: css@knfpub.com (Karen Maree' Kaye)
Subject: Re: definitions

Hi Coralie

Here are my interpretations to your questions.

Could we start with a definition of *Classical* Dressage, please?

I look at Classical, Academic and modern dressage as all being derived from the same school. The school of the old master de la Gueriniere. The French School, German school and Viennese schools all train along the foundation set by de la Gueriniere.

I suppose in my mind that "classical" means something that is simple and harmonious that follows established forms of the period.

"And while we're at it, I've often wondered what other people see as being *The Basics *. I have my own ideas, but would be very interested in seeing if there is a general agreement or OTH a great diversity of views. I tend to think that there would be a few principles that everyone would accept, but beyond them???"

I suppose this question would boil down to which exact school you followed. I can only speak for the French school who's prime objectives are achieving a totally resistance free horse that carries himself completely in his own self carrige with no support from the trainer.

I have found that the French School differs greatly from other schools in the progression of training the horse. Maybe not so much on paper, but when you see for yourself, it is a different matter.

When I begin a horse, I first teach them to be horizontally balanced and carry themselves in self carriage in hand on on the longe. When the horse is balanced the whole weight of his body is distributed equally on all four legs and the front is free. I achieve the horizontal balance and self carriage in place before I allow the horse to move.

The longe is quite different from what many will see nowadays and could best be termed as "specialized". Once the horse has understood the aid to teach the self carriage, which is the half halt, the work on the longe (7 metre circle) consists of gaining concentration, obedience, toning of muscle, relaxation and impulsion.

The work in hand is again in self carriage and progresses from all paces of the walk with the halt and rein back, half pass, pirouettes etc. Once perfect to trot then canter. Ultimately to canter on the spot, piaffer, passage, and all transitions up and down from all gaits and two track movements.

Work under saddle is similar in that again, the half halt is the primary aid to teach and get consistent self carriage and in the French school this is done by the hands only by mobilizing the mouth and raising the neck of the animal, which thereby takes the weight off the forehand. The half halt is also used in hand or on the longe.

The work under saddle is done first of all at the walk, and many movements are used to supple the horse's mouth and therefore body, such as the turnings, which free the horse from neck and head resistances, half pass, the crowd, the waltz, rein back, vault, half vault, renvers vault and serpentines.

Only when the horse is carrying himself completely in self carriage do I then begin the trot, and the trot is then perfected before the canter is begun.

Long and low is "only" used at the walk to stretch and supple the horse and this exercise also greatly improves the impulsion. If the walk is resistance free and impulsive, then the trot and canter are likewise.

The French School is probably the most different of all the schools as the rider is not using the hands and legs at the same time. The half halt is different, and balance is achieved before movement. We do not use the movement to achieve the balance. Collection is achieved earlier.

Eventually the riders aids will diminish to seat only, (no hands no legs), but I have found in early stages that the hands are the most important indicators. I rarely use my legs for impulsion, and never use them to indicate bends. This is all done by the hands.

To say in writing that you indicate, say for instance, the half pass or flying change entirely from the hands is often hard for people to visualize. But this is how it is.

Training periods are short and succinct. Within no more than half an hour of training per day, I would have worked a horse in hand, on the longe and under saddle. All collected paces are introduced progressively, with only a few strides to begin with, the main emphasis, again, is keeping the horse off the forehand and in self carriage through the half halt.

We never work our horse into a sweat and use no auxilliary aids except for the long and short whip. I do not use spurs and will not progress a horse to the double bridle until he is at an advanced level.

There is lots more, but hopefully this will give you a basic idea of this method. I am sure there is much more that others can add.

TC
Karen-Maree'

Coralie responded:
"Thank you very much for that--it is fascinating. Please explain the following terms: the crowd, waltz and vault TIA"

Karen-Maree responded:
The crowd - Is like a crowd of people all moving in different directions. The crowd is used to obtain full maneuverability from the horse and is used off the track with no outside wall as guidance. The entire menage is used.

Example:
walk forward and rein back half pass to the right, half pass to the left, walk forward, small circle to the right and then to the left pirouette, reverse pirouette at each hand haunches in, haunches out, serpentine walk back to the track and waltz in each hand walk forward, long reins caress and relax.

The crowd is also done at the trot with piaffe and passage in the centre of the manage and at canter with canter on the spot, canter pirouette etc.

The Waltz -
The Waltz is used to get more mobility of the forehand and haunches, to make the mouth (more obedience to the hand). The horse is kept light and balanced and becomes submissive and expressive.

The Waltz is a pirouette followed by a reverse pirouette, followed by a pirouette, followed by a reverse pirouette and so on. These are executed on each hand and performed on the outside track of the menage.

The volte is a circle.(I spelt it wrong, you will have to watch me, my spelling sometimes has a lot to be desired!!) A volte can come in many different varieties, a demi volte, a volte with haunches in etc., etc.

All of the above are performed with the horse in self carriage and can all be incorporated into the crowd which is a lot of fun for both horse and rider and keeps the training sessions interesting and creative. Domino "loves" the Waltz and will keep doing it himself until I ask him to change.

Regards Karen

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